Torture; It's What's for Dinner
As Brian Ross of ABC News told Bill O'Reilly, water boarding has directly led to intelligence used to thwart terror attacks in this country. That is a fact. It also eliminates an argument mistakenly put forward that torture is not only wrong, but it is useless. It is clearly not useless. Now, this brings us to an interesting discussion. What price honor? I agree with UBlo that as Americans we should uphold the highest standards of decency. I also understand that that impulse is what led people to want to believe torture is useless. That way we could do away with it cost free. Well, not using torture (and American techniques are quite tame in the arena of real torture) now has a clear price - American lives. So I question is the moral high ground, in this case, worth the price?
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3 comments:
"Brian Ross of ABC News told Bill O'Reilly, water boarding has directly led to intelligence used to thwart terror attacks in this country. That is a fact." Not to be nitpicky but I don't see the "fact." Someone said something you agree with, yes. Did they provide any proof, that is, beyond saying they had it? Not in what you wrote (I've been searching for a transcript-not yet). Bill Clinton said, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky." Was that a fact? Did it put that issue to rest?
I'm sorry but I need a whole lot more than Mr. Ross saying so to refute the volumes of data that show that torture is at best, useless and at worst detremental. There's a reason so many current and former interrigators are against torture. I also want to be clear, this is not an indictment of Mr. Ross. I had no idea who he even was until I tried to find the transcript of the conversation you mention. I have no opinion on the guy either way. Could be a hack, could be the paragon of critical journalism, I honestly don't know. However, I do think O'Reilly is a hack. Seriously, absolute ameteur hack.
As far as the second part of your conversation, I, unhesitatingly assert that America should not torture, Amercian's should not torture, and American's should not support torture. My reason's for this rest in an ideal of what America stands for, a general moral code, and religion. Torture has no place in any of those and is the final resting place of those who know only fear and cling to this,their life at the expense of all else. History is full of hero's who had the courage to sacrifice themeselves for an idea greater than their life, while those who torture, or support torture do just the opposite. I have found no justification for torture in any docuement to be proud of; the Bible, Torah, Koran, or secular.
We're better than then, we have to be. It's both who we are and who we strive to be.
So is the moral high ground worth your imagined price? I say yes, easily.
And having heard you play the guitar, I'm no stranger to torture.
I did find this at: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0551,news,71102,2.html
Now, here is a smoking gun from the (Brian) Ross report:
"According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear . . . al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.
" His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment."
I moved this to another post so it is easier to follow. I like that "flow" better. You know I'm all about the "flow".
Watch the video and you'll see that the Village Voice article does not counter the facts put forth.
Also, you may have answered the question I'm raising but I'm not sure.
I'd be shocked if you felt there was any TV analyst who isn't a hack.
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