Monday, April 30, 2007

In other news, fire is HOT!

File this under "News that isn't really news." A new study shows that minorities fare worse during traffic stops than whites.

Looks like everyone gets pulled over at about the same rate, but that there's a pretty dramatic disparity of experiences after that.

Insert obvious "Justice is blind" comment/joke here.

6 comments:

StalinMalone said...

The liberal myth that all cultural sub-groups are the same but for superficial appearances needs to die. The truth is that the "socially unsuccessful" strata of society is disproportionately peopled by minorities. A lack of respect for authority is a key trait of this sub-group. It would seem completely logical that you get much less "yes, sir; no, sir" from minorities pulled over by police. That is not to say that the statistics are completely free of a bias from the police side. However, at the very least, it is shared by all those involved. Sadly, the reporting on this and the commentaries only focus on the simplistic and incorrect conclusion that this proves racism as an oppressive force is alive and well in society.

The Unknown Blogger said...

Here's the way I see it. I would make a big bet that the numbers from this study are dramatically better than they would be from a study done 4o years ago. It's also interesting, again, that the rate of being pulled over is about the same across the board. However, the rate of search and arrest being more than twice the rate of whites (plus the dramatic increase in use of force) says there's more going on than a lack of "yes sir, no sir." Combine this with other studies that show higher conviction rates and even higher death penalty convictions for minorities than whites, and I think you would be foolish to state that "racism in law is dead."

Diminished greatly, but not dead. Like any other great project, you can go a long way, put in loads of effort, see great results, but still not be "finished." Which is where I think we are.

Racism is alive and well as an oppressive force, it's just not nearly as prevalent or as strong as it used to be. That's great. And even the report's writing that "There were slight but statistically insignificant declines compared with the 2002 report in the percentages of blacks and Hispanics searched" makes sense. The last vestiges of any improvement project are the hardest, and additional improvements will be incremental and slow.

But you can't look at this, not like the results, and offer up nothing more to back up an assertion that its wrong than "it comes from a lack of yes sir, no sir." Especially given that my bet is that knowing they're at more risk, minorities use more "yes sir, no sir" than whites.

In the end, this study doesn't show that racism is on overwhelming destructive force, nor that its a harmless butterfly. It just shows data. I think, realistically, its both positive and to be expected.

StalinMalone said...

The "yes, sir; no, sir" comment apparently needs esplainin'. It serves to demonstrate a significant difference in attitude between the groups in this study. And that difference is VERY significant. I granted that it isn't the entire answer. I did not argue that the world is free of any forms of racism. Take a look at our group of friends growing up, it is very apparent that a few members of that group brought much of their problems upon themselves. Popping off to security guards at a mall makes you more likely to get kicked out for life than someone who does the same thing but keeps his mouth shut.

There will always be a disparity between members of the mainstream culture and members of the broken inner-city culture in terms of treatment by police. And a great deal of this discrepancy is due to how each group treats the police. One group believes the police do not deserve respect and has no fear of prison. You'll need more than, "my bet is..." to get me to think that that group is MORE likely to be polite.

As far as I'm concerned racism has been reduced to an annoyance. It will never be irradicated much like (and because) stupidity will never be irradicated. In fact, most likely the term "racism" will continue to morph into less and less useful forms as it gets broadened so as to prove it still exists just like always.

Muscles for Justice said...

I take your point that we're a nation struggling with "small-r" racism in theory as well as practice, but an "annoyance" that impedes someone of any race or ethnicity under threat of arrest or worse deserves at least this measure of internal scrutiny and public discussion, overheated advocacy aside, as always.

Also interesting is your suggestion that "the liberal myth that all cultural sub-groups are the same but for superficial appearances needs to die", but you've put it on the wrong chopping block; we all are overpoliced (a position with which you, as an infrequent seat belt user, should be in sympathy).

StalinMalone said...

Part of my argument is that what appears to be racism very often is not. There is a "gang-banger" attitude that is strongly affiliated with blacks. It is not exclusive to blacks, but certainly applies disproportionately. People exhibitiing this attitude affect arrogance and aggression. I would expect any person, including police officers, would be less willing to cut this group any slack. That is perfectly logical and only secondarily racial.

It does not indicate to me any breakdown in society if the cops are more likely to bust someone acting like a punk than someone not acting like a punk. And if minorities are more likely to act like punks then it follows that more will get busted. And personally, I'm tired of the "let's pretend that all people act the same when confronted with the police" nonsense that we are supposed to believe to escape sensitivity training.

If you are taught that the police are basically there to help you you will have one type of interaction, if you are taught that they are out to get you you will have another type. I certainly agree that overreach by the coppers is an afront to all of us, but I didn't see any reason to assume that was happening based on the posted story.

Please, tell me more of this...chopping block...

Muscles for Justice said...

Wait for it . . . it's coming.